On getting credit for your work
We all love bass playing. And most of us, I think, do it for the love of it. And while the bass plays, in most situations, a supporting role, it's often the case that its role is entirely unacknowledged when it comes time to divvy up the writing credits on recordings. I've been in a dozen different bands and they each had their own way of dividing up songwriting credits. But the most common--and, I think, the least fair--is to give 100% of the credit to whoever walked in with a few words and chord progression (generally, the guitarist). But words and a chord progression do not a song make--they are the seed but not the entire fruit. Songwriting, in most bands, is a collaborative efforts. But we are culturally unaccustomed to thinking of supplying a drum beat or a bass line as part of the writing of the song. And that needs to change.
How do you guys manage it in your own bands/collaborations?
When it comes to laying down
When it comes to laying down a track in the studio, live or at practice I believe all the members should get credit for the work. When it comes down to the composing of the music it should go to whom ever did that work. If every one in the band helped make the decisions that affected what was written and played then again, they all should get equal acknowlagement. On the other hand, if one or two of the members did all of the composing then they should get all the credit for that and the others members should only get credit for their playing/singing.
This reminds me of a time I was sitting in an office while checks were being written for some band members after a new album was released. It was funny because if you read the acknlowlagements on the album cover the singer got most of the credit but when I was looking at the checks his was just over 8 grand, the drummers was 20 somethin' grand and the guitarist and bassist both had checks in the 80K $ range. I asked about that and their accountent said, "Well the singer just sang, the drummer had a bit of input but the bassist and guitarist did the majority of the writing so they get most of the money."
Thats my little story for the day but yeah, a lot of musicians, especially bassists and drummers, do not get the credit they deserve.
Cheers
HAZ
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"Practice doesn't mak perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."
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"Carburetors man!! That's what life is all about."
Musicians Collaboration Studio
Some systems
It seems to me like you can do it one of several ways:
The typical but, IMHO, unfair way of doing things: the person with the original concept (chord progression, melody, lyrics) takes all. Everyone else is, essentially, an unpaid session musician, helping flesh out the ideas but not getting any writing credits for it. Famous example: The Police.
We're all in this together, so everyone gets an equal share. In a four-piece band, everyone gets 25% of every song. This is the most democratic method. Famous example: REM.
This is an idea I've had for a while that I think has some advantages over the first two. The person with the "original concept" (basic chord progression, basic melody, bulk of the lyrics) gets 50%. The remaining 50% gets split equally among the remaining members of the band. This would work best in bands that really work collaboratively in fleshing out the rough ideas brought in by various members. It has the advantage of giving some incentive for bringing in ideas. But it also rewards all of the musicians for contributing. There wouldn't be a situation where someone plays on a famous track and makes no money off of it. Famous example: ???
Again, I lean toward the second or third. I've yet to see a "songwriter" come in with bass lines written out for me to play. Until I see that, I'll assume that some of me is going into the lines I play and, thus, the song. Same for the drummer. Same for the kazoo player (if we're lucky enough to have one). :)
Whether or not any of this makes sense in a work-for-hire situation is a separate issue. But most of us don't play in those situations much. Most of us, I think, play in bands. And if those bands play originals, you have to--the earlier the better--discuss (and preferably write down) how you're going to divide up the pie.
Of course, the music biz has it's own ways of doing things, some of them quite antiquated (obviously based on the way professional songwriting was done in the early 20th century--where one person typically composed the music and another wrote the lyrics). Someone with a better grasp on that can explain it if he or she cares to.
bassplaying.com
The third way seems to me to
The third way seems to me to be the best. It is also the way the band I was speaking about did it. They had songs that the guitarist, who is a very acomplished musician, would even bring in bass lines and the bassist would bring in guitar rhythm/lead lines.
Also, some of their songs were as you mentioned in the last paragraph, usually split betweeen the bassist and guitarist, but one of them would compose the music and the other would do the lyrics but they would still do the 50% for me/us and 50% for the rest.
Granted this is just one band but I know first hand that is how THEY did it.
Cheers
HAZ
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"Practice doesn't mak perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Carburetors man!! That's what life is all about."
Musicians Collaboration Studio
Songwriter's bass lines
I've certainly done a few sessions where the songwriter had written out bass lines for me to play. Not one of them was really worth playing, but invariably the songwriter had his "vision" as to how the tune should sound.
I used to suggest other lines that might be more authentic to a particular style or more appropriate to a tune, (as in a bass line a bass player might actually play) but soon found this was a lost cause in most cases. Now I just play their lines, take my money, and go home, but always wonder just what exactly they thought they needed me for.
There is no substitute for proper technique!
Ya know, they have those
Ya know, they have those types of egos that make them want to feel incharge so they hired you just so they could tell you what to do which in turn made them feel high and mighty
HAZ
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"Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Carburetors man!! That's what life is all about."
Musicians Collaboration Studio
The "Clifton" of BP
I officially dub HAZ the "Clifton" of basspaying.com (at least until Clifton finally joins up here. Then you'll have to have an animated GIF dual or something).
Wheat
bassplaying.com
Sad, but true
I remember a story about James Jamerson in the studio--perhaps on more occasion, looking over a chart and saying to the songwriter, "You really want me to play this shit?" I'm not sure of the exact words. And it may just be a legend. But, the story goes at least, that in Jamerson's case, they generally gave in and let him work his magic.
I remember getting put off by some bassist who was a friend of a band I played in and liked to offer me plenty of "advice" on what made a cool line. I finally told him I'd been playing bass long enough that I had a fairly good idea what would work. He backed off of it, finally.
Of course, when you're getting paid to play, it's smarter to just take the cash and play what they like. It's a little different when you're a member of the band and aren't getting paid by the hour.
bassplaying.com
method 2 vs. method 1
REM are still together and the Police aren't.
Speaks for itself.
Fat man, fat bass.
Touche!
Good point, Spiky.
Wheat
bassplaying.com